Interview With OSCE Representative on Discrimination Against Christians
Interview with Dr. Massimo Introvigne, Italian sociologist of religion, representative of the chair-in-office of the Organisation of Security and Cooperation in Europe on combating racism, xenophobia and discrimination, with a special focus on discrimination against Christians and members of other religions, Rome/Vienna.
Kugler: Dr. Introvigne, your office has a special focus on discrimination against Christians. OSCE covers most of the areas of the world that we call the „Western world“ – traditionally Christian regions. Considering the human rights abuses we see in different areas, don’t you think that Christians are a little bit oversensitive?
Introvigne: In fact, OSCE also includes countries in Central Asia and the Caucasus where laws and regulations on religion are comparatively new and may need to be improved. In some countries, securing registration of religious bodies as legal entities or obtaining visa for missionaries does not seem to be easy enough. West of Vienna, where OSCE is located, there are also problems with discrimination against Christians. This discrimination, to borrow a word from Benedict XVI, is more „subtle“ than elsewhere. Christians are excluded from public discourse, ridiculed, or marginalized. There are also legal decisions discriminating against Christians‘ right to free speech on the workplace or in public positions. Ironically, one of the most important analysis of this situation is included in a speech which was never delivered, although its text was subsequently released. Benedict XVI prepared a discourse for a visit to La Sapienza University in Rome on January 17, 2008, where he planned to discuss marginalization of Christians in the Western public discourse. This visit was canceled due to the intolerant reaction of a small minority of professors and students. The incident, of course, confirmed more than anything the Pope may have said that a problem of intolerance against Christians does indeed exist in the West.
Kugler: Aren’t many of the rights Christians claim for themselves not more than anachronistic historical privileges? Aren’t the removal of crucifices from public school or of crosses from mountain tops mere expressions of a development of society and not intolerance against Christians?
Introvigne: Minority rights are a very important part of our civil conversation. We should however not forget that majorities, too, have their rights. A balance between the two should be found, although this may occasionally be quite difficult. For instance, polls have confirmed that 82% of Italians, including a solid majority of these Italians who describe themselves as „non-believers“, favor keeping the crucifix in Italian public schools, notwithstanding a different decision by the European Court of Human Rights.
This decision refers to a case in an Italian school where the families were consulted, and all the families except one voted to keep the crucifixes in their children‘s classrooms. We saw similar reactions where there are proposals to remove the crosses from some national flags in countries where they have existed for so many centuries. Going against the feelings of a large majority of the nation for the sake of a tiny minority – in the case of that Italian school, a minority of one – does not seem to be rational. It is also not conductive to a true respect of minority rights. The latter, in fact, are not a purely legal matter. Majorities tend to respect minorities, as they of course should, when they think that their rights as a majority are in turn respected and not discriminated against. A climate where the rights of the majorities are systematically ignored is not a climate which is favourable to general tolerance and non-discrimination.
Kugler: Christians claim that aspects of anti-discrimination legislation interfere with their rights. A bed&breakfast owner in the UK was recently sentenced to pay a fine for limiting their double rooms to married couples. Would you consider this a discrimination or rather development of time which protects all minority groups – including Christians renting a room from gay hotel owner?
Introvigne: UK was once famous as the country of common sense. But they also have a saying that nothing is less common than common sense. These problems should be solved with a grain of salt. Assuming that in the middle of the Gobi desert during a sandstorm there is only one hotel, and a non-married couple asks for the last double room available, perhaps even the Christian owner of the inn should find room „for the sinners“. In an average UK town on the other hand probably there is a variety of accomodations, and there may be a peaceful coexistence between establishments which are „family-oriented“, „gay friendly“, and so on.
Kugler: How would you deal with art work which hurts the feeling of Christians? Would you give preference to freedom of artistic expression – or would you be more concerned with the feelings of Christians?
Introvigne: Freedom of artistic expression is part of our Western heritage. We normally regard the Middle Ages as „dark ages“ with an oppressive presence of the Church. However several works of art, not to mention pantomimes and pieces of theater during Carnival, were remarkably free in their depiction of the Church. Dante placed several bishops and even Popes in his hell. There are, however, two points to be made. One is that each country has her own traditions. What may pass for humorous in Milan or Vienna may be regarded as deeply offensive in Central Asia. The second is that there is a fine line between critical allegory, humor or satire, on the one hand, and insult and defamation on the other hand. There are laws against insult and defamation in all civilized countries. Italy is remarkably open to religious satire. When an ultra-fundamentalist Moslem preacher (not representative of Italian Islam in general, I would add) said that „Jews are pigs“ he was, however, prosecuted, I believe quite rightly. Calling Judaism a false religion is protected by free speech. Calling Jews – or Christians – „pigs“ is an offense under our common laws against insult and defamation.
Kugler: There are growing concerns with regard to the situation of Christians in the middle and the far East. Are you not afraid that your focus on Christianity in the OSCE region would distract necessary attention from persecuted Christians?
Introvigne: Not really. In fact, the main point is cultural. We need to understand what religious liberty is all about. Part of the problems in the Middle and Far East arise from the fact that there are misunderstandings about religious liberty. It is reduced to freedom of worship. But this is only part of the story. Religious liberty includes freedom to worship inside the churches but also freedom to preach outside the churches, to print books, to be active as believers in the political life. And if as a result of the preaching somebody converts, the new convert should be left in piece rather than prosecuted for apostasy or blasphemy. It is also important to realize – and here let me quote again Benedict XVI – that religious liberty should not be regarded as the promotion of relativism, and the idea that all claims of truth by religions are pre-scientific, irrational, or false. As the Pope said in his Message for the World Day of Peace 2011, „the illusion that […] relativism provides the key for peaceful coexistence is actually the origin of divisions and the denial of the dignity of human beings”. It is because they see the Western notion of religious liberty as a disguise for imposing Western relativism that many in the East reject this notion, or try to substitute it with a reduction of religious liberty to freedom of worship. The same relativism is responsible for marginalizing and discriminating Christians West of Vienna. As you may see, combating discrimination against Christian East and West of Vienna is based on the same philosophical rationale.
Kugler: What can OSCE do to improve human rights violations? What can OSCE and you personally do with regard to intolerance and discrimination against Christians in the OSCE – region?
Introvigne: The Lithuanian Chairmanship insists on culture and education. I see as my first task to promote a deeper, larger and better cultural awareness of the foundations of religious liberty and non-discrimination. In this respect I hope to be able, under the guidance of the Chairmanship, to organize an international roundtable – possibly in Rome – and at least one educational event for international students in order to raise this awareness. The usual OSCE practice of country visits may also be used for the twin aims of raising awareness and improve certain specific local situations.
Kugler: Your office is entitled „OSCE representative on combating racism, xenophobia and discrimination, with a special focus on discrimination against Christians and members of other religions“. Do these themes somehow belong together? Why is it that your colleagues focussing on Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia work on these issues exclusively?
Introvigne: I understand there was a complicate process in order to define the respective mandates of the representatives. It is important to note that my mandate does not include only religious intolerance but also racism and xenophobia. I have studied as a scholar Roma issues and are impressed by OSCE’s Roma Action Plan. I hope to be able to make it better known. There may be some interaction with religious issues, since Roma often belong to religious minorities as well. I also understand that racism still raises its ugly head, and that my mandate should, by way of example, include a vigilance against racism affecting persons of African descent.
Kugler: What is the difference of the intolerance experienced by Christians „East“ and „West“ of Vienna? What does the geographical distinction mean – today, after the iron curtain has fallen?
Introvigne: There are of course countries which I have visited as a scholar which are now difficult to classify as „East“ rather than „West“. Lithuania, the country having this year the position of Chairman of OSCE, is a country I have often visited as a scholar and which appears to me as being quite typical of what many of us call „the West“ in term of history, academic practices, and general lifestyles. On the other hand Kazakhstan, which held OSCE’s Chairmanship in 2010 and where I felt very welcome at the High Level Conference on Human Rights in Astana last year, is in many respects a country „East of Vienna“. As I mentioned, laws on religion are still being written in some of these countries, and there may be room for improvement in some areas, although it should also be recognized that OSCE and ODIHR did already contribute to some significant advances in the field of religious liberty and human rights in general.
The interview was conducted by Dr. Gudrun Kugler, director of the Observatory on Intolerance and Discrimination against Christians in Europe, www.IntoleranceAgainstChristians.eu
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